Poll Will 1847 Americans join the Grand Alliance?

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Will the 1847 Americans Join the Grand Alliance?

33% 33% 
[ 1 ]
67% 67% 
[ 2 ]
 
Total Votes : 3

Poll Will 1847 Americans join the Grand Alliance?

Post by Pokermind on Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:27 pm

The poll: Note I've voted. pirat Arrr.
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Re: Poll Will 1847 Americans join the Grand Alliance?

Post by Dilandu on Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:50 am

This depend of the situation. They aren't in any danger of contact with Grik's, and the Dominion seems to be their major opponent. They would probably support actions agains Dominion, but not participate in any major actions against Grik's - at least not before Dominion is eliminated from the equations.
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Re: Poll Will 1847 Americans join the Grand Alliance?

Post by Dilandu on Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:53 pm

Just thought... how many 1847-type americans could be here by 1944? They arrived on four ships, transferred by Squall. Because they stated that their arrival was due to the Mexican-American War, this ships probably was warships or troop transports. Depending of ship's size, this could mean about 800 to 4000 mens as initial population.

They clearly should hit the same demographic problem as the Empire; too few womens to support population. Quite probably they meet some primitive locals in Destroyermen's world, to solve the problems (interesting question; both Empire and USA-1847 hit the same problem with too small women population. Could this mean, that their culture shifted to frown less about homosexual relation than the real-world Victorian era? Smile Quite probably!).

But the main problem - how many peoples could they have? Probably no more than a few millions, or even less. The Destroyermen's world clearly is not very suited for humans, so the rate of population growth must be less than optimal. Also, the USA-1847 wass locked in war with Dominion for quite a long time - and long wars aren't good for demography. We also knew, that they were forced to resettle a large part of their population at leas once to make some distance between them and Dom's; this should affect the population growth either. Assuming that the period of duplication of population is about 25 years, and assuming the original population as no more than 10000, we could reach:

1850 - 10000 (start point)
1875 - 20000
1900 - 40000
1925 - 80000
1942 - about 100000

This didn't look too promising.
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Re: Poll Will 1847 Americans join the Grand Alliance?

Post by trakwelder on Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:25 am

this is a poll i just can't answer. we don't really know anything about the 1847 americans. i, for one, am dying to find out about them.

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Re: Poll Will 1847 Americans join the Grand Alliance?

Post by Dilandu on Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:27 am

this is a poll i just can't answer. we don't really know anything about the 1847 americans. i, for one, am dying to find out about them.

Well, they definitely not as powerfull as Dom's and have a relatively low technical level. That's for sure.
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Re: Poll Will 1847 Americans join the Grand Alliance?

Post by Pokermind on Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:47 pm

Dilandu, it is possible not just sailors and their acquired wives were the initial population of their United States, Hatred of the Dominion may have caused an exodus of disaffected population element, traditional Catholics and Native religion adherents male and female to join the retreating Americans. Thus the 1850 population might have been 100,000 as easily as 10,000.
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Re: Poll Will 1847 Americans join the Grand Alliance?

Post by Dilandu on Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:07 pm

Dilandu, it is possible not just sailors and their acquired wives were the initial population of their United States, Hatred of the Dominion may have caused an exodus of disaffected population element, traditional Catholics and Native religion adherents male and female to join the retreating Americans. Thus the 1850 population might have been 100,000 as easily as 10,000.

Yes, but not that fast. Remember, they arrived only in 1847! I doubt that they immediately decided "hey, it would be fun to start a war - let's raid the Dominion!"

And the problem is, that the war tended to drain manpower, not to add it. So, the 1847s americans hardly would be able to have a really large population. They have a long, and, clearly - not sucsessfull war with Dom's, and were eventually forced to move all their population to avoid destruction.
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Re: Poll Will 1847 Americans join the Grand Alliance?

Post by Pokermind on Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:54 pm

Just for fun the order of battle:

               Possible TOE 1847 Americans

 Unit                 Men        NCOs      Officers     Total People   Cannon   Horses        Wagons
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Squad                    8           2             0                   10            0            0             0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Platoon                 28           7             1                   35            0            2             1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 x Platoons          84         21             3                 105            0            6             3
 command              2           6             2                   10            0            2             1
 Kitchen                 3           1             0                    4            0            2             1
  Supply                 2           1             0                    3            0            4             2
  Medical              10           1             1                   12            0            4             2
 2 x 6 pdr             10           3             0                   13            2            8             1
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Company             111         33              6                 126            2           26             9
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  2 x Company     222         66             12                 252            4          52            18
  command             7          6             6                   19            0            2              4
  Kitchen               3           1             0                    4            0            2              1
  6 x 12 pdrs         30          7             1                   38            6          38              1
  Supply                 5         1             1                     7            0          16              4
  Reg Hosp            12          5             4                    21           0            4             2
  Cav. Company    101        30             6                  137           0         154             9
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regiment              380       116           30                  526          10        268            39
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  2 Regiments       760       232           60                1,052          20        536            78
  Cav. Reg.          378       165           25                   568           4         632            36
  command             7           6             6                    19            0           2              4
  Kitchen                3           1             0                      4            0           2              1
  6 x 12 pdrs         30           7             1                     38            6         38              1
  Supply                 5           1             1                       7            0         16              4
  Bat. Hosp           24         10             6                      40           0            8              4
  Messengers          0         10             0                      10           0           10              0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Battalion           1,207        432           99                  1,738         30       1,274           128
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 2 Battalions     2,414        864          198                  3,476         60       2,548          256
  command             7          6               6                      19          0             2              4
  Kitchen                3          1               0                       4           0            2              1
  Supply                 5          1               1                       7           0          16             4
 Brigade Arty.       182        44               8                    234         36         234             7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brigade             2,611       916           313                  3,740         96     2,802           274
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Possible TOE 1847 Americans

 Unit              Men        NCOs    Officers  Total People   Cannon     Horses       Wagons
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brigade          2,611        916              313      3,740          96       2,802              274
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 2 Brigades    5,222      1,832              626     7,480         192       5,604              548
  command        10            6                 6          22            0             2                 4
  Kitchen             3           1                 0             4            0             2                 1
  Supply              5           1                 1            7            0           16                 4
  Messengers *     0         30                 0          30            0            10                 0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Division          5,240     1,870             633       7,743          192        5634              557
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Messengers 10 for each Brigade and 10 for  the Division command.

Note Texas the frontier with the Dominion has miles of miles, thus heavy cavalry incorporated into infantry formations The heavy artillery from the book's reference to the artillery saving their bacon in 1847
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Re: Poll Will 1847 Americans join the Grand Alliance?

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