Republic Monotors

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Republic Monotors

Post by Pokermind on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:52 am

Some earlier two turret monitors

Milwaukee class Civil War river ironclad As Built: Displacement: 1,300 tons. Dimensions: 229 x 56 x 6 feet/69.8 x 17.07 x 1.83 meters. Propulsion: HNC steam engines, 7 boilers, 4 shafts, 9 knots. Crew: 120. Armor: Iron: 3 inch sides, .5 inch deck, 8 inch turrets. Armament: 2 dual turrets, each with 2x11 inch Dahlgren smoothbore.  Due to report that image not showing post below here is the LINK.



Puritan Class post civil war seagoing monitor, As Built. Displacement 6,060 Tons, Dimensions, 296 x 60 x 18 feet/90.3 x 18.33 x 5.49 meters, Armament 2 dual 12/35, 6 single 4/40, 6 six-pound, Armor, 6-14" Belt, 14" barbettes, 8" Turrets, 10 " Conning Tower. Machinery, HC engines, 8 boilers, 2 shafts, 3,700 hp, Speed, 12 Knots, Crew 200 (270 wartime): Due to the report of image not showing, post below, here is the LINK.



Amphitrite Class Monitor: Displacement 3,990 Tons. Dimensions,262 x 55.5 x 14.5 feet/80.08 x 16.86 x 4.42 meters. Armament 2 dual 10/30, 2 6-pound, 2 3-pound. Armor, Steel & Iron: 9 inch belt, 11.5 inch barbettes, 7.5 inch turrets, 7.5 inch CT. Machinery, HC engines, 4 boilers, 2 shafts, 1,600 hp. Speed, 12 knots.  Due to the report of image not showing, post below, here is the LINK.



Source of drawings Nav Source: LINK, look at monitor category for class names.

I imagine them more like the River Monitor the first drawing. Perhaps a tad more freeboard and more pointy bow and stern.  There is a "flying bridge" between the turrets twin stack where the drawing shows three, note the stacks are across the beam not inline with the length.  I would put four two meter [6' 6.6"] diameter Scotch Marine boilers in two boiler rooms flanking a central corador rather than  the six riverboat style boilers shown.  Note: no deckhouse between the turrets is noted.  Deadly Shores page 427 in the Hardback has the following, "Greg noticed there were two columns of smoke above the twin turreted "Monitors" he had been told to expect, and the squat, ugly ships were steaming toward him."  Straits of Hell Page 122 of the hardback notes Greg speaking with the Monitor's captain on the flying bridge."


Last edited by Pokermind on Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:04 am; edited 3 times in total
avatar
Pokermind

Posts : 199
Join date : 2015-07-02
Age : 64

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Dilandu on Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:55 pm

Something wrong with images - I couldn't see them.

Amphitrite Class Monitor: Displacement 3,990 Tons. Dimensions,262 x 55.5 x 14.5 feet/80.08 x 16.86 x 4.42 meters. Armament 2 dual 10/30, 2 6-pound, 2 3-pound. Armor, Steel & Iron: 9 inch belt, 11.5 inch barbettes, 7.5 inch turrets, 7.5 inch CT. Machinery, HC engines, 4 boilers, 2 shafts, 1,600 hp. Speed, 12 knots.

Hm. The "Amphitrite" class, strictly speaking, aren't the early monitors. They are the so-called "refitted" civil war era "Miantonomoh"-class monitors. Actually, all this "refit" was the giant fraud to obtain money from Congress in 1870s; the supposedly "refitted" ships were, actually, scrapped (they were wooden and completely unfit for duty), and the new monitors were ordered under the same names.
avatar
Dilandu

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-07-23
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Dilandu on Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:59 pm

My opinion about the Republic monitors - is that they were close to the 1880s tech level:

Probably something like that:



The "Rusalka" (which generally mean something near the "Mermaid" - however, actually the Rusalka's aren't only sea sprites) class monitor of russian navy, build in late 1860s
avatar
Dilandu

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-07-23
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Pokermind on Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:30 am

Specifications of the Princeps Class Monitors: Edit

Here are the specs, based on general appearance of Amphitrite Class Monitor:

Displacement 2,150 Tons, Dimensions, 235 feet long, 50 feet beam, 8 feet draft, 4 feet freeboard, and crew of 110.

Armament as described four 8-inch (around 210 mm[1]) breech-loading, rifled cannons, mounted in two rotating turrets, with four Maxims.

Armor, 6 inches sides, extending 4 feet below waterline, 2 inches on deck, 6 inches protecting turret sides. Deemed sufficient at the time of construction to defeat 24pdr smoothbores--the largest guns the Doms were known to have at sea. Yes, they had observed them. [stuff on Republic & Dom contact I'm not allowed to share] Deckhouse is not armored.

Two boilers, two tall, thin stacks on centerline, single shaft, @1,000 hp. Speed, 8 Knots.

No fighting top, but mast is in about the same place as Amphitrite, with a higher crow's nest. Also, two (bare) yards for auxiliary sails and forestays for a jib. No aft sail capacity, obviously. Extensive flying bridge, with small protected pilothouse. Raised chain hawse. Screw is 2 bladed, and enclosed--NOT exposed shaft and rudder arrangement per USS Monitor. Note above from E-Mail from Taylor Anderson used with permission. MAY BE SUBJECT TO CHANGE!

For a good a drawing of the Amphitrite Class Monitors mentioned above see:

http://navsource.org/archives/01/monitors/amphitrite202.jpg
avatar
Pokermind

Posts : 199
Join date : 2015-07-02
Age : 64

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Dilandu on Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:46 am

O, I'ts great!
avatar
Dilandu

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-07-23
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Pokermind on Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:54 am

My drawing of a monitor so far:



You doing one Alexey?

Further along


Last edited by Pokermind on Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:01 am; edited 2 times in total
avatar
Pokermind

Posts : 199
Join date : 2015-07-02
Age : 64

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Dilandu on Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:58 am

You doing one Alexey?

Yeah... but something about 8-feet draft is bothering me. Even the USS "Monitor" have more. Maybe 18-feet?
avatar
Dilandu

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-07-23
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Pokermind on Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:35 pm

Eight foot draft is specified as is the four foot armor extension below waterline. I fudged making it two foot over the rudder & screw. a two and a half foot screw is to small for the horsepower, and four and a half foot marginal for a two blade screw. I won't get much done today, shopping and evening church service, gives me time to think about the powder and shell hoists thinking of putting them on the wall one for powder and one for shell hoist for each gun. That's the problem with us engineers we worry about the guts, that dictate the form. Thinking of raising the floor and putting two walk ways around a central magazine-turret room. That gray surrounding is the curve between the flat bottom and the straight sides up to the water linewhere it meets the tumblehome in two feet.
avatar
Pokermind

Posts : 199
Join date : 2015-07-02
Age : 64

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Dilandu on Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:36 pm

Eight foot draft is specified as is the four foot armor extension below waterline.

Er... seems i couldn't understood you. How is this connected?
avatar
Dilandu

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-07-23
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Pokermind on Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:50 pm

The hull line goes down straight four feet with 6" armor plate then two feet with say half inch plate that curves to meet the flat bottom. Over the screw and rudder I stole two feet to make a bigger screw and rudderthe flat bottom. leaving clear space for rudder and screw. I have not put in the lines yet to show the two foot stratight section that extends to where triangle at the rear of the engine room. Any sailors working on thesteering and the water tight seal on the rudder shaft will cuss this having to crawl in!
avatar
Pokermind

Posts : 199
Join date : 2015-07-02
Age : 64

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Dilandu on Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:39 pm

Started to work over them too:

avatar
Dilandu

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-07-23
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Dilandu on Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:05 pm

avatar
Dilandu

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-07-23
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Pokermind on Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:36 pm

And my attempt further along:



Last edited by Pokermind on Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Pokermind

Posts : 199
Join date : 2015-07-02
Age : 64

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Dilandu on Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:40 pm

Charles, still no picture visible. Try to use -

http://imgur.com/

- or some other hosting.
avatar
Dilandu

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-07-23
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Pokermind on Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:10 pm

avatar
Pokermind

Posts : 199
Join date : 2015-07-02
Age : 64

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Pokermind on Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:00 am

Latest version:



The upper most drawing is an over head view  Rectangles are coaling hatches. To be done and the two boom cranes from the mast.

the next deck shows the interior of the turrets and the deck house from bow to stern has the enlisted men's head, the stairs to the lower deck then the crew's mess The galley. the blower room the officers quarters and the officer's head, wardroom then the stairs down to the engineering spaces.  Two smaler drawings shoe the Forecastle and the pilot house.

The bottom deck roughed in notice raised passages around the Magazine Far forward is the chain locker next is the crew's berth, then the Magazine, then the Goat locker where petty officers are berthed, stairs up to Mess and forward crew's head. next are the port and starboard coal bunkers and the boiler room in the center, then the stairs passage way and paint locker, the rear Magazine surrounded by passages to the Engine room.  Last is the engine room.  In the Magazine the large red circle is where the hoistsfrom the turrets travel the inner circle ready shell storage.

The bottom drawing shows the starboard side notice ratlines and spars for sailing two square sails three jib sails, to be done ship's boats and the two boom cranes from the mast..
avatar
Pokermind

Posts : 199
Join date : 2015-07-02
Age : 64

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Dilandu on Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:18 pm

And another:



Currently added:

- Coning tower
- Brige, with wings
- Vent shafts
- Stairs, portholes and doors
- Secondary Maxims (at the corners of the superstructire)
- Observation cupolas at the turrets upper parts
- Railings
avatar
Dilandu

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-07-23
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Pokermind on Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:29 pm

Alexey I like how your drawing is  progressing.  Now for my latest did first cross section you can see the tumble home.  May have to make boilers eight footers.

avatar
Pokermind

Posts : 199
Join date : 2015-07-02
Age : 64

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Dilandu on Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:33 pm

Thanks!

The finalized design:



The “Princeps”-class monitor are in the water.

As on the US “New Navy” monitors, the deskhouse is octagonal, with conning tower near the bow part. On the roof of the conning tower the flying brige with two wings are placed. “Maxim” machineguns are placed at the corners of superstructure.

Two turrets are old-type cylindric turrets, with observation cone over each one. The embrasures are oval in shape. The semi-circles on deck are the indicators of the turrets train limits. Armed with old-type 8-inch muzzle breechloaders (prizmatic powder). No fire control.

Two indepedent boiler rooms, probably with some type of Scotch marine boilers, two compound engines working on the single shaft. All machinery arranged in central part, between turrets.

The ship is painted in traditional World War I German navy color scheme: underwater part – red-brown, near the waterline – dark-grey, abovewater hull – squirrel-grey, and turrets and superstructure are silver. The tops of smoke pipes, turrets and brige are black.

avatar
Dilandu

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-07-23
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Pokermind on Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:59 am

Got the crew quarters, four tier bunks x 24 for crew gives 96 enlisted bunks 6 officer cabins 11 officers and the captain's cabin.

avatar
Pokermind

Posts : 199
Join date : 2015-07-02
Age : 64

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Dilandu on Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:49 pm

Still, the engine placement is very... strange. Maybe better to move the rear turret close to the stern? So we could put the engine room near the boilers?
avatar
Dilandu

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-07-23
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Pokermind on Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:41 pm

Dilandu "Still, the engine placement is very... strange. Maybe better to move the rear turret close to the stern? So we could put the engine room near the boilers?"  And have the shaft running through the magazine and preventing the shell hoist and powder bag hoist from turning with the turret?

Size comparison Republic Monitor, USS Walker, Scott Class DD.



And the kinda finished drawing:

avatar
Pokermind

Posts : 199
Join date : 2015-07-02
Age : 64

Back to top Go down

Further work on the Turret

Post by Pokermind on Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:31 pm

Turret design Hoists and turret motors are pneumatic telescoping pipe at bottom of hoist and2 cylinder 'steam engines' running on air that turn two of the eight wheels supporting the turret on the track: A third engine could be placed between the guns but without good access. These engines are placed here as most of the weight of the guns will be on those three forward wheels that the turret turns on. Exhaust from the engines and hoists will help blow smoke from the turret through the two gun openings. Compressed air can be supplied via a hollow pental with rubber washers or a stuffing box with a stationary ‘cup’ at the bottom or an electric compressor in the turret. Geared down electric motors could replace the ‘steam engines,’ however the pneumatic hoist similar to those seen in garages is the simplest mechanism to hoist the powder bags and shells. Likely a box of fusses will be in the turret so the shells only receive their fuse just prior to ramming. While a telescoping pneumatic ram could be installed on each gun more likely a wooden ram will be used.

Notice the wooden stand that allows the turret commander to see through the copula windows, and the ladder that allows the turret crew to enter.



Last edited by Pokermind on Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Pokermind

Posts : 199
Join date : 2015-07-02
Age : 64

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Dilandu on Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:47 pm

Can't see details... too little picture. Sad
avatar
Dilandu

Posts : 153
Join date : 2015-07-23
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Pokermind on Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:03 pm

The only thing I can suggest is down load and enlarge on a drawing program this is a larger scale 1 pixel = 1" or 25mm. If you want I can send the drawing via an E-Mail if you PM the address you want it sent. The detail is quite visable on MS paint. Those members on the gun frame are equivalent to 4" or 100 mm H beams that cast frame is directly over a 4" by 5.5" (100 mm x 137.5 mm) I beam with half inch steel plate between. It should easily take the recoil. The trunion is 8" 200mm in diameter.
avatar
Pokermind

Posts : 199
Join date : 2015-07-02
Age : 64

Back to top Go down

Re: Republic Monotors

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum